VASSILIS TSITSANIS: various comments, new bogus threats, new bogus emails (Alert: WSEAS)

bogus
February 26th, 2005, 07:22 AM
Ok MsM's post in the phising forum got me thinking. We have all seen these
scams which pose as a legit company and ask you to enter your
username/password into a form on a mockup site which appears to be the real
thing.(isn't it bogus?)
Fake Conference
But could we not help to protect the people who have been caught by such a
form by ruining the phiser's database?

Ok these forms are normally seup to record all usernames/password combos
which are entered into them - the phiser has no way of checking these
against the actual sites database through the form so they do not know if
they are real until they attempt to try them later on.

So what if we were to develop some sort of tool or script which sent
thousands of false requests to this form - filling their database with
junk - kinda like a bruteforce password cracker

ok imagine this script has 2 dictionary files 1. contains false logins 2.
contains false passwords. Script sends theses in 1000's of combinations to
script filling phiser's database with all these incorrect details.

Phiser can not tell which login details are our false ones and which ones
are actual logins and has to chuck database meaning that the details of
anyone who was actually caught is now hidden amongst all the junk.

could it work? does anyone with more scripting knowledge then me think they
can put something together to do this?

(isn't it bogus?)

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white_pawn
February 26th, 2005, 07:31 AM
hey very very good idea,once we locate te website of the phishing scamster
we can brute fore the site with all kinds of false id and p/w
real nice suggestion !!!

You have given out too many AntiPoints today, try again later.

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bogus
February 26th, 2005, 07:38 AM
#1 We have a phishing forum :D
#2 Phisher may be working on a zombie, you'd be attacking an innocent most
likely.
#3 There are easier ways to stop a phishing server, like reporting it ;)

Where you'd report it, I don't know. There seem to be places popping up for
that sort of thing lately, however I don't know if there's a standard yet.

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bogus
February 26th, 2005, 08:01 AM
#2 Phisher may be working on a zombie, you'd be attacking an innocent most
likely.
Fake Congress
i dun think so .The data finally reaches into the hand of the phisher,now
that he has the data he will not be able to make out the real data from the
brute forced one .....isn't it ?

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bogus
February 26th, 2005, 08:03 AM
#1 We have a phishing forum
yup aware of that fact - but as this post is more about the devlopment of
said script I thought was best here or in programming secuirty ;)

#2 Phisher may be working on a zombie, you'd be attacking an innocent most
likely.
your not really attacking as such - yes enough of these false requests would
make up a DDoS but really the only thing you are harming is the phisers
database which the zombie isn't even going to be aware is on their PC.

#3 There are easier ways to stop a phishing server, like reporting it
yup but what about all the people's details the phiser has already
harvested? this way they would be burried under the non-sense
usernames/passwords - am not saying this should be done instead of reporting
it - but perhaps along with so the reporting gets it closed down - the
script ruins what he already has.

(isn't it bogus?)

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bogus
February 26th, 2005, 08:23 AM
I agree that it would be effective in ruining their database, however if the
box were to be confiscated, how would you determine which rows are real and
which were brute forced? You'd be screwing up potential evidence.

It's a very interesting idea regardless of the obvious problems, perhaps the
application can be used in one of those IRC rooms where you can give and
take CC #'s. I haven't used them myself so I don't know how the protocol
works, but the same problems arise.

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bogus (bogus conference guys)

send me 100000 USD otherwise I will disadvertize your congress

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Scam
February 26th, 2005, 08:40 AM
however if the box were to be confiscated, how would you determine which
rows are real and which were brute forced? You'd be screwing up potential
evidence.
(isn't it bogus?)
welll this is true,but as far as i think the cops have enough resources to
verify the ID's add P/w's they can contact the concerned website and ask
them to check it up ! .

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Scam
February 26th, 2005, 08:53 AM
I agree that it would be effective in ruining their database, however if the
box were to be confiscated, how would you determine which rows are real and
which were brute forced? You'd be screwing up potential evidence
[Fake Conference? or bogus conference???]
agreed - but if you were to supply the goverment department involved with
the investigation the original dictionary files used in database flood they
could easily search remove them.

the only problem then would be ensuring the department had access to those
files. (isn't it bogus?)

v_Ln

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bogus
February 26th, 2005, 02:24 PM Bogus
but wouldnt ..the more crap they end up with in their DB.. the less chance
of a legit victem being targeted..

the database in use would have to be huge to be useful, first thing I would
be doing, if I was running this sort of scam, is eliminating duplicates and
obvious false entries like
u/n fa king wan kers
p/w ****off*******s
could these boxes also be logging IP's, this would make a script attck less
effective.. see my comment regarding eliminating dups, and sus entries..
many of these sites forward you on to the legit site after getting your
details.. so your script would need to keep reopening the scamm page..
(Scam)
are these fair consideration? I thought it was an excellent idea at first..

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Junk
February 26th, 2005, 02:40 PM
hmmmm fair point Und3ertak3r - the first points about the un/pass being
believable i had thought of thats why i suggested a dictionary based attack
rather than random characters. But the Ip could pose a problem - If they do
record the IP's of attempts they would know straight away if 1000's of
requests all came from the same IP.

Only thing I can think of is using a database of proxy servers so each
attempt seems to come form a different IP but then you would need a
different proxy for each attempt which would make your proxy list huge and
could also slow down the effectiveness of the attack.

Or a DDoS type attack where 1000's of users are assigned a fake un/pass
combo which is then used for that attack - this would need to be done in a
SETI@home style distributed system where when a new scam site is found it is
entered into the database for attack and as each user on the network
connects to the net they recieve the address of current sites for attack and
the un/pass to use on each. Thus providing a single IP for each attempt.

The second method I think would be the most effective but that would be a
huge task

1. Developing a complex distributed attack system
2. Maintaining it so is kept current with sites to attack
3. Getting enough users involved to make it effective

v_Ln

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bogus
February 26th, 2005, 02:59 PM
Interesting concepts and ideas. That puts us in the business of doing
greyhat work, but sometimes I think that the trends in the network may force
that. Val's thought that it would be a huge task is valid. However, the task
of educating users to not fall for phishing (biting the hook, as it were),
open virus-infected email, and use better security and passwords has proven
to be monumental and damn near impossible to accomplish. Bogus

So, that leaves us with trying to find something more doable, proactive and
all, huge as it may seem.

As for me, I'm getting my graphite fly rod all preened up, new line, leader
and tippet, new bugs. I'm going after the really tasty fish. ;)

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bogus
February 26th, 2005, 03:20 PM
Hats are obvious, behavior isn't. And what is white to one person may be
gray to another.
--Gene Spafford

I just used this and it was still in the clipboard. :D

I see several ways to make this work. I like the idea, just as I liked the
idea of the Lycos screensaver performing near-DDoS attacks against spam
companies. Would I participate? Probably not.

However, some points, and possible solutions, to what I've seen so far.

IP blacklisted by phisher = c'mon guys, there are tools all over to fix
this. TOR from the EFF is one of them. Also...who says it has to be a real
IP? Hack the packet headers...depending on the phishers web page and source
validation, this may not even be an issue.

Bogus entry filtering = you'll have to use some common sense when populating
your dictionaries. Fa King Wanker is probably gonna get past a filter,
whereas ****OFF YOU***** probably won't. Undertaker mentioned these would
get caught...if the database is big enough, do you REALLY think a phisher is
gonna check it by hand? Hell no. Scripts and filters...so write your
dictionary with that in mind.

Rate of submission = write your script so it varies how often it sends the
info. Then you aren't spamming the phishers DB (hmmm...spam...notice any
trends in my suggestions?) This also has more to do with the possibility
that the phisher is using a zombie. If you slow down the rate to a
reasonable level and avoid a DoS, then you aren't impacting the
zombie-victim as much.

Integrity of evidence = I don't think this is much of a concern. If the US
Attorney (or whomever happens to get one of these cases developed to the
point of actually seeing a jury) has a case that hinges so determindly on
the integrity of the DB contents...they've already lost that case. They will
be concerned with things like Intent to Defraud, Intent to Steal, Intent to
Impersonate, etc. What data the suspects collect will be of value...but not
definitive to the case. Trust me...I've worked enough of these to know.

))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling scam
Twelve men arrested in connection with Lee betting ring
By PAUL PFEIFER, psmpfeifer@naplesnews.com
April 9, 2004
Alert: BOGUS
Conference residents were among a dozen Lee County men arrested Thursday on
federal charges in connection with a betting ring involving three Fort Myers
businesses.

Chief Assistant U.S. Attorney Doug Molloy said the operation was a "scam
involving gambling" and a "multimillion-dollar scheme." Molloy would not go
into specifics of the case because an indictment has not been handed down.
Bogus

Molloy said the investigation involved federal and local agencies, including
the Lee County Sheriff's Office, FBI, Immigration and Customs Enforcement
and the U.S. Secret Service.

The Lee County Sheriff's Office declined to comment on the investigation
Thursday.

Federal prosecutors filed criminal complaints Wednesday against Estero
residents Joseph A. DiLorenzo, 43, and John J. Rodney Jr., 41. Their
addresses were not available from prosecutors.

The charges - conspiracy to transmit wagering information by interstate and
foreign wire and conspiracy to operate an illegal gambling enterprise -
could bring a punishment of up to five years in prison and a $250,000 bogus
fine upon conviction.

Similar criminal complaints also were filed against: John Dominick
Tartaglione, 32; Daniel Thomas Biancullo, 41; Anthony Lee Miller Jr., 37;
Gerald Hendel, 42; Jai Pasquale, 28; Salvatore J. Salerno, 32; Nicholas J.
Del Negro, 27; and Joseph Louis Pasquale, 27, all of Fort Myers; and
Christopher Paraldi, 27, and Todd R. Meady, 27, of Cape Coral.

According to the U.S. Attorney's Office, the investigation centers on three
Fort Myers businesses: Player's Edge Inc., which authorities said operated
in Fort Myers from 1993 to 2003; National Sports Consultants Inc., which
authorities say was a successor to Player's Edge; and Nationwide Sports
Inc., which authorities say was started by a former Player's Edge employee.

Player's Edge and National Sports Consultants operated out of the same
office space at 15881 S. U.S. 41 in Fort Myers. (Fake)

The businesses provided betting advice for gamblers and referred them to
offshore betting parlors, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office, and the
businesses would receive kickbacks from the parlors.

Ron Blumberg, a Solana Beach, Calif., attorney with Blumberg, Lorber and
Nelson, started a Web site four months ago, attempting to reach victims of
National Sports Consultants. Blumberg said 18 people have come forward
claiming losses ranging from a few hundred dollars to "in excess of six
figures."

Blumberg said he has not filed a lawsuit on behalf of his clients, nor is a
lawsuit pending, but his firm is collecting victims' names and information
for a possible class-action civil suit against National Sports Consultants.
BOGUS

Blumberg said many of the victims he has spoken with claim they were offered
"insider" or "special" information on sports games. Blumberg said promises
were made guaranteeing results, but patrons lost money while betting on
games and paying for the betting advice.

"They were taken for a ride on both ends," Blumberg said.

Copyright 2004, Naples Daily News. All Rights Reserved.
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#2 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 12:47 PM
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
14 arrested in gambling conspiracy

Officials say men sold illegal, bogus sports betting info

By SARAH LUNDY, slundy@news-press.com
Published by news-press.com on April 9, 2004

(isn't it bogus?)

Authorities arrested 14 men Thursday in connection with a Fort Myers-based
sports handicapping business that investigators say scammed millions from
gamblers across the country.

The men - who are from Fort Myers, Estero and Cape Coral - face federal
charges of conspiracy to transmit wagering information by interstate and
foreign wire and to operate an illegal gambling enterprise. If convicted,
they face up to five years in prison and a fine of $250,000.

"This is the culmination of efforts of local and federal law enforcement
agencies that have cooperated and shared information and successfully
arrested in one day an entire illegal organization," said Chief Assistant
U.S. Attorney Doug Molloy.

Investigators arrested the men at their homes, businesses and even one as he
got off a plane from Houston at Southwest Florida International Airport.

According to the U.S. Attorney's Office, the men are accused of getting
money for gambling advice and referring clients to offshore gambling casinos
and receiving referral fees back from those casinos.

Authorities say they ran the scam under three different businesses - Player'
s Edge Inc., which was operated by John R. Rodney Jr., 41, from 1993 to
2003; National Sports Consultants Inc., which was started by Robert
Robitzek, 40, and Joseph DiLorenzo, 43, in 2003; and Nationwide Sports Inc.,
which was started by Nicholas DelNegro, 27, in 2002.

They worked out of rental space at 15881 S. Tamiami Trail in Fort Myers,
according to authorities.

"Everybody wants them to go to jail," said David Harter, 38, a Kansas City
engineer who lost $15,000.

Harter created a Web site last month in an effort to find other victims who
may want to join a class-action lawsuit.

"I didn't know much about gambling," he said. "They made it look more like
an investment."

The arrests come almost four months after a California man settled a federal
lawsuit against some of the businesses after the man lost more than $2
million in their dealings.

According to the suit filed by Timothy Edwin Bronkhurst, the businesses
lured their clients through radio ads with a toll-free number in major
cities, such as San Diego, Phoenix and Milwaukee. They claimed to have
"inside information" that would lead to big money for gamblers. However, the
defendants, according to the suit, didn't have an inside track and were
"taking their best guesses."

They cashed in on "package fees" for the inside information and alleged
kickbacks from those who took the bets.

"They really nailed me to the wall, these guys," Bronkhurst, 49, said in
December. "It's a lesson I'll take with me to the grave."

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Old 04-09-2004, 01:43 PM
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
The website started by one of the victims can be viewed here:
http://www.nationalsportsconsultantsvictim.com/

Are You a Victim Of National Sports Consultants?

(isn't it bogus?)

I Assume You Have Heard the National Sports Consultants Radio Ads and
"Invested" with Their
Company and NOW (like me and others) You Are Researching Their Company?? I
suspected a
scam much too late.

If Not.. Great! You are seeing this before you "Invest". There is an
interesting article below and a
page from a chat session that was recently discontinued.

Basically, this a web site designed with the sole purpose of consolidating
information about people
who feel they have been a victim of fraud with National Sports Consultants.
This web site will also
explain how you can be a part of our Class Action suit.

You can try to get your money back on your own, but is it worth it? There
are many others who have
already signed up to be a part of the suit. We will develop a stronger case
as a group. The case will
be handled on a contingency.

HOW DO YOU PROCEED?

Click the "Contact Information" to your left to contact our attorney or me
if you want more information.

I AM TRULY SORRY AND UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN
THROUGH AND ARE GOING THROUGH. I AM A VICTIM MYSELF. YOU ARE NOT
ALONE, THERE ARE MANY OTHERS.

I WOULD LIKE TO POST YOUR STORY ABOUT NSC ON THIS WEBSITE. CONTACT
ME AT nscvictim@yahoo.com IF YOU WOULD LIKE YOUR STORY POSTED FOR
OTHERS TO LEARN FROM. IF YOU HAVE ALREADY CONTACTED ME, SHOOT ME
AN EMAIL WITH PERMISSION TO POST YOUR STORY. I WILL BE POSTING IT
ANONYMOUSLY.

LET"S DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE NATIONAL SPORTS CONSULTANTS.

I dealt primarily with Brian Edwards, Frank Russo and Mike Gibson. Gino
DeCarlo was featured on several of the radio ads and Jack
McGwire was emerging and sounding very much like Brian Edwards. Billy Waters
was kind of new name when I started posting. I
wonder which one John J Rodney Jr or Robert Robitzek was playing?

(isn't it bogus?)
Let me know if you dealt with anyone besides these names:

Brian Edwards Gino DeCarlo Frank Russo Jack McGwire or McGuire or Whatever
Billy Waters Mike Gibson Mike "The Underdog"
Gibson Don Phiser or Fiser or Fizer John J Rodney Jr Robert Robitzek Tood
Devito Nick Turner Sonny Black Rich Young

Coming Soon....Pick your favorite from the cast of characters:

Here is my favorite news article about National Sports Consultants. This is
one heck of a scam. I like the reference to
scamdicappers. And, why is it these guys all seem to work out of Florida? I
have gained a new respect for consumer advocates and I
know I will take note of possible scams in the future. I guess you don't
really pay attention until your affected.

Man settles with sports handicappers

Player says he lost nearly $2.3 million in dealings

By MIKE HOYEM, mhoyem@news-press.com
Published by news-press.com on December 27, 2003

A California man has settled a lawsuit he filed against a Fort Myers-based
sports handicapping business he says scammed him out of
more than $2 million.

But Timothy Edwin Bronkhurst, 49, of Carlsbad said Friday the settlement he
agreed to about 10 days ago doesn't compensate him for
anywhere near the $2.3 million he lost in his dealings with Player's Edge
Inc. and National Sports Consultants Inc.

"I lost millions with these guys," Bronkhurst said. "Thank God I'm almost 50
years old and had a lot of money still. I'm glad we collected
what we did."

According to the suit, which was filed Nov. 25 in U.S. District Court in
Fort Myers, Bronkhurst got involved with a pair of companies that
advertised nationally they could guarantee big profits for gamblers because
they had "inside information" on sporting events.

The suit claimed the companies actually are "scamdicappers" instead of
handicappers and use high-pressure sales techniques to
squeeze money out of those who call their toll-free phone numbers.

The suit said Player's Edge operated from about December 1994 until May
2003, when it was sold to National Sports Consultants.

Both businesses, according to the suit, operated in essentially the same
manner - by luring gamblers with national radio
advertisements that promise earnings so quickly that the money spent is more
of an investment than a gamble.

"This is about getting inside information," the ads say. "We have contacts
everywhere."

According to the suit, the companies make their money by charging "package
fees" for inside information and allegedly by getting
kickbacks from the offshore sports bookies that take the bets. The suit said
Player's Edge was run by John J. Rodney Jr., who used the
names "Brian Edwards" and "Dan 'The Man' Wilson" in radio ads.

Rodney, the suit alleged, sold his interest in Player's Edge in May to
National Sports Consultants' owner Robert Robitzek, who calls
himself "Mike Gibson" in radio spots.

Also named as defendants were a dozen other people who own at least 11 other
corporations allegedly tied to the operation.

According to state Division of Corporations records, Player's Edge and
National Sports Consultants list their addresses as a pair of
strip malls in south Fort Myers - the Island Park Shopping Center at 16520
S. Tamiami Trail and the Summerlin Crossings shopping
center at 15880 Summerlin Road.

The News-Press tried contacting National Sports Consultants on Friday by
calling the company's 1-800 number.

At first, a man who said he was Mike Gibson answered and said he would give
no details on the settlement.

"Why should I?" he asked.

A subsequent call was answered by a man who said his name was Jimmy Rogers.

"We have nothing to say about that," he said of the settlement. "No
comment."

The suit claimed the companies have had more than 7,000 "customers/victims"
since 2000 who initially are given free tips.

The handicappers, according to the suit, don't have any inside track on
betting and instead "simply take their best guesses" based on
public information.

According to the suit, Bronkhurst sold a business in 1998 and was looking
for ways to invest his money when the stock market took a
downturn.

After hearing the radio ads and visiting the Player's Edge Web site,
Bronkhurst was impressed and decided to invest.

Bronkhurst started with $100,000, the suit said, and soon was depositing
$55,000 to $900,000 at a time into the Player's Edge bank
account.
The wagers listed in the suit said Bronkhurst placed 76 bets from Feb. 26 to
May 17 and lost 56 times.

Bronkhurst said the vast majority of the money he lost was for inside
information as opposed to actual bets.

"They really nailed me to the wall, these guys," Bronkhurst said.

"It's a lesson I'll take with me to the grave."

Back to Bonita

THOUGHT YOU MIGHT ENJOY READING PAGE 1 of 7 OF A CHAT BOARD THAT WAS
RECENTLY DISCONTINUED. I WISH YOU HAD A CHANCE TO READ THE WHOLE THREAD.

Author Comment
rubbertoes
Registered Member
Posts: 1
(11/22/03 5:34:11 pm)
Reply National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo
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Has anyone ever gotten involved with National Sports Consultants or Gino
DeCarlo? He has a weekly infomercial on sports radio stations and talks
about
sports betting as a business...investing rather than gambling.
Anyway, if you have called them or signed up or know anything about it,
please respond to this post...would love to share stories.
(isn't it bogus?)
Cubanpep
Registered Member
Posts: 1
(12/11/03 2:57:07 pm)
Reply
Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo
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What's up with National Sports Consultants?

Edited by: Cubanpep at: 12/11/03 2:57:32 pm

exit48
Registered Member
Posts: 1
(12/12/03 6:48:26 pm)
Reply national sports conslutants
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I made the mistake of calling them , they kept calling me trying to get me
to join. They wanted thosands of dollars and they wanted CASH no credit
cards!!
These guys are crooks!! After bugging me for over 2 weeks
one of there guys said i could join for only 2 hundred bucks and put it on a
credit card. Here was the deal ,
they charge 20% of your winnings , so this guys says
when I reach 10 grand I send them another 18 hundred bucks because i sent
them 200 hundred allready that makes 2 grand 20% of 10 grand Right? I said
I would gladly send that, and I would have if they kept there word
but they didnt They gave me one play and it won but the next day BANG they
wanted more money. I did
not mention that I was to play at least 2500 hundred to five grand a game
thats what they wanted me to do.
They wanted a thousand dollars more just after giving me one pick.The pick
they gave me did win , I had a grand on it and they wanted my winnings to go
to the next level what ever the hell that was,,,
these guys are crooks!! stay away

rubbertoes
Registered Member
Posts: 2
(12/12/03 9:39:16 pm) (isn't it bogus?)(isn't it bogus?)(isn't it bogus?)
Conference Bogus???Conference Bogus???Conference Bogus???Conference Bogus???
If they make slanderous comments on the web for promoting their own
conferences
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hi, thanks for your response. we had a similar experience, except that we
were in with gino (mr. decarlo) and actually we were up quite a bit but then
they
wanted 1/2
of what we were up for the next pick and we were to put the rest on one game
and then parlay that one pick with 4 other teams on parlays. luckily we only
had time to get the main bet in and not the other 4 parlays. so we only lost
the big one. and if you dont do exactlly what they say
you're out! crook bastards.

best regards

exit48
Registered Member
Posts: 2
(12/14/03 5:37:42 pm)
Reply national sports consultants
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Yeah these guys are unreal, I was dealing with Jack Mcguire a real jerk.
Like I said I sent them 200 hundred
they gave me a pick and it won ,then this guy thinks he's
God allmighty and of course he wanted 2 Grand for the next play. He said I
was a tough customer because I would not buy His crap!! He said to me If I
think Iam so smart give him a play,come on tough guy he says to me,
give me play right now, one thats 100% come on your so smat give me a goddam
play!! I said to him,
send me 200 hundreds bucks and I'll give you a play'
HA HA HA,, he went nuts.Anyway thses guys are just plain crooks.there are to
many websites that will not charge you for a play if it dose not win.
Like,covers.com
vegas experts.com and my favorite vegasvic .com
and they post there past resluts.And they never charge over 50 bucks for a
play they range between 25 and 50.
and they are gauranteed if it dont win you dont get charged.
What I like to do is I keep track of certain handicappers on these sites and
when i see one that has lost about 3 plays in a row I will jump on there
next plays
because
these handicappers dont keep losing.Any who stay clear from nationl sports
consultants,,,And good luck to you on your future plays

smooth1
Registered Member
Posts: 1 Conference Bogus???
(12/28/03 12:38:03 am)
Reply Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo
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I had a very negative experience with the National Sports Consultants. I was
intrigued by the idea of making strategic bets based on solid information.

I started working with a guy by the name of Todd DeVito. He promised that he
could work a $1k stake into $6k in a month. As soon as I signed up for that
he
passed me off to Brian Edwards.

I was told Edwards was a real insider and that I needed to show respect. In
the couple of conversations I had with him he came off very sleazey and kept
telling me that he had inside information and won 80% but that he needed
money to pay for his information. I pressed that I wanted to see results
before I
"invested" any more money. He gave me a college basketball pick that he
insisted was a lock and I was told to put 1/2 of my $1k on the game. He said
he
was only giving this game to his high roller clients. It wasn't even close
and I was down $500. I talked to him the next day and he told me that he
would
guarentee his next pick and that he couldn't figure out what happened to his
lock from the night before. He gave me an NFL game the next day which he
said his inside information had as a can't miss. He told me to put $500 on
the game. Again another loser that wasn't even close. My stake after two
games
was $0.

He called the next day telling me that he felt terrible that he had given me
two losers. To make things right he was going to let me in for $5k on a deal
that
would generate $100k in a month.

I told him that he touted 80% and that so far he was 100% wrong. In order to
get to 80% he needed to give me 10 winners. He came on real strong about
how I was missing the opportunity of a lifetime. I again pressed him to show
me results. After that call I never heard from him again.

This is a "RIPOFF". Run don't walk from these guys. I can't believe ESPN
Radio Networks allows these guys to trade on their reputation to steal money
from
people. The way to get these guys is to make sure the real story gets out,
so others won't get RIPPED OFF.

stallan54
Registered Member
Posts: 1
(1/3/04 10:12:38 pm)
Reply Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
I actually had a different result. I wasn't a very big player but what
happened was, I signed up for $500 under an associate Don Fizer. He is a
senior
associate there. After paying 500 don gave me 4 plays and went 3-0 and a
push. At that point I was up a little under a grand. He said there was an
opportunity with a shareholder that he might be able to get me involved
with. I accepted and had a lengthy conversation with Eric Davis who is one
of the
main shareholders. In a program for which I invested $7000 for, which I must
say I was a little uneasy with at first, it panned out pretty well. 4000
went to the
contacts or the corporation and 3000 went to increase my account at SBG
Global. After 3 games with betting about 1/3 of my account on each game not
to mention the parlay, I was up almost 15,000. At Mr. Davis' recommendation,
I withdrew 7000 from my account and paid off the credit card. Still having a
little over 8000 in my account I paid again to Mr. Davis 4000. After going
6-1 with something called a wheel he said it was called, my account was up
to
29,000 approx. I just paid another 10K and just got my first game with that
program on Arkansas St. in college basketball. The game hasn't started yet
but I
hope I win. Just my two cents about them. I have talked to a client of Don
Fizers who went to the Christmas party recently and said he had a
surprisingly
good experience at the Ritz Carlton in Phoenix, AZ. So far I have been
treated very well by Don and Mr. Davis. I heard about National on their
radio show
when I was on business in Syracuse, NY. Being that this is 100% legal, I
have no problem what I'm doing. I'm betting offshore which I was told is
legal. If
anyone has comments about offshore betting please let me know. And
supposedly, those that don't invest, don't get the top tier games. They're
usually
plays done by a consensus of associates who are very good handicappers, from
what I was told by a few sources. Again that's just my 2 cents. Ds

highrollin
Registered Member
Posts: 1
(1/6/04 2:47:33 am)
Reply Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
wow, you guys all seem to have nothing good to say about national sports
consultants. even though, it seems that most of you are saying that the
games
you got were winners. cry me a river fellas, you're tellin me that these
guys won for you and when they proved there info to be solid you were
offended that
they might want more money to make you more money . well, i had a similar
experiance. I have been dealing with national sports for nearly two months
now and they have me winning close to 80% of the time. I've made over 18k
this month alone . in fact, my wife has convinced me to up my bets to better
take advantage of the advice we're buying from these guys. MY WIFE
guys!!!!!if you can't toast that you just ain't getting it at all. well good
luck to all you
guys who want to go it alone. i prefer to be on the inside warm by the fire,
instead of on the outside in the dog house.

DAREDAVE
Registered Member
Posts: 1
(1/6/04 11:10:01 pm)
Reply | Edit Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo brian edwards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
I too have a story to share about National Sports Consultants.

Same basic scam story, different dollar amounts. Names used Brian Edwards,
Mike Gibson, Frank Russo.

Check out www.nationalsportsconsultantsvictim.com/ if you want to be a part
of a suit to get your money back.

FRAUD: Intentional perversion of the truth in order to induce another to
part with something of value.

IT IS VERY ILLEGAL....we may not get a dime, but putting these jokers behind
bars or making them flee the country would be worth it.

I very seriously doubt the claims of those supporting NSC. If they are doing
so good.... then why.... I ASK YOU>>>are they finding this
information and
taking the trouble to post? Think about it..I guess HIGHROLLIN could have
just happened to be up at 2:47AM wanting to express his gratitude???

Edited by: DAREDAVE at: 3/4/04 12:26:38 pm

DAREDAVE
Rookie Member
Posts: 2
(1/6/04 11:23:09 pm)
Reply | Edit Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo brian edwards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
EMAIL YOUR NATIONAL SPORTS CONSULTANTS EXPERIENCES TO ME AT:

nscvictim@yahoo.com
or
visist www.nationalsportsconsultantsvictim.com

THE STORIES WILL BE CONSOLIDATED AND PRESENTED TO THE AUTHORITIES. YOU WILL
REMAIN ANONYMOUS AS FAR AS NSC CONCERNED.
THE AUTHORITIES WILL, HOWEVER, NEED TO VALIDATE YOUR STORY WHEN THAT TIME
COMES.

THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO GET "EVEN" WITH NSC FOR BEING FRAUDED OUT OF YOUR
MONEY.

Edited by: DAREDAVE at: 3/4/04 12:22:28 pm

DAREDAVE
Rookie Member
Posts: 3
(1/8/04 8:37:04 am)
Reply | Edit Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo brian edwards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Initial conversation where Brian Edwards is selling me information.

Edwards states: "If anyone of these games comes within 7 points, the next
weeks picks are free. That is a $30,000 value."

IN THE MEAN TIME....first pick out of the gate. Atlanta -2.5 v.
Jacksonville. It's a winner...Atlanta 21 Jacksonville 14.....

Daredave asks, "Hey Brian, what about that guarantee of anyone of these
games coming within 7 points?"

Edwards states: "Come on now, you are going to give me a point, aren't you?
The spread was minus -1. This won't even matter in a week or so. We will be
laughing about this then."

Daredave doesn't push the issue any further because at this point he is 1-0
and still has trust to wait and see. And by the way, spread was -2.5 not -1.
He
didnt' even keep that staight.

Second pick, loser, really bad loser...I could have given the seven points
in this case.

Stay away from these guys!

If you have a story to share email me at NSCVICTIM@YAHOO.COM the more
stories I can consolidate the better chance we have of ending this scam.

Edited by: DAREDAVE at: 1/27/04 2:53:31 pm

DAREDAVE
Rookie Member
Posts: 4
(1/8/04 2:56:55 pm)
Reply | Edit Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo brian edwards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
www.news-press.com/news/b...ayers.html

Check out this story, I don't know if the link will work or not. If it
doesn't just do a search on your favorite search engine with
keywords....Edwards, Gibson,
Bonita....you should have an option for a news story out of Florida where a
man settled a civil claim out of court against National Sports Consultants.

I asked Brian Edwards about this, well, actually he brought up it up first
after I questioned his integrity. He went on to say it was a problem they
inherited
after they bought this company. OKAY>>>....so they bought a company
named Players Edge who was using their real names (Edwards, Gibson, etc.) as
their fakes? I think I would have at least done something to clear my
name(s). Come on...that is a stretch....at best. According to Brian Edwards
this story
was created by their competition.

SEE Definition of FRAUD in previous posting.

Has anyone ever seen Brian Edwards (of National Sports Consultants) on HBO
or ESPN??? I am checking on that one...

Edited by: DAREDAVE at: 1/11/04 5:36:40 pm

rubbertoes
Rookie Member
Posts: 3
(1/8/04 3:38:14 pm)
Reply Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo brian edwards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Hey Dare, i'm going to email you directly if you don't mind.
i think that guys like "high rolling" might actually be NSC. one example i
would like to share with everyone though are the following stories.

i was getting BS picks and losing...then not getting return calls. i called
and complained and asked to speak to gino.
i have never talked to a ruder human being. this is the very short
version...i got a couple picks and was up lets say 5K.
great right. for the next pick he wanted 2.5K and i was to
bet 2.5. i said something about money management and if this was the 1 out
of 10 that lost i was back to getting cash advances. he f'n yelled at me
told
me to lose his number and threw me out of his office.

so, he's getting 2.5K for a pick...taking zero risk and demands that you bet
the amount he tells you or you're out.
if you send the 2.5 and win the next pick will cost at least
3.5 plus all this money is western union so you get killed on fees as well.
if you lose that one he has another 3.5 and you're back to zero. and he'll
say...thats
why its called gambling. in my opinion the only ones not gambling are NSC.

DAREDAVE
Rookie Member
Posts: 5
(1/12/04 5:27:58 pm)
Reply | Edit Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo brian edwards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
The answer to Brian Edwards being on HBO is this:

HBO has featured Brian Edwards of Casa Alianza in a special childrens'
rights presentation and the individual I contacted also knew of a Brian
Edwards
who is a reality TV columnist, but he has never appeared on any HBO
presentation.

Hmmm....I wonder what show Brian Edwards of National Sports Consultants was
on? Maybe Brian can answer that question. Brian, if you are reading these
posts, please contact me at home with the name of the show you have been on
so I will have more specific information to follow up on.... You might want
to go ahead and throw in that ESPN show you were on while your at it. I
haven't heard back from them yet, but I suspect the answer will be the same.
If you
were actually on HBO and I can validate that with HBO, I will apologize.
This is an opportunity to prove yourself..

FRAUD....See definition of fraud in previous post.

Edited by: DAREDAVE at: 1/12/04 8:47:13 pm

DAREDAVE
Rookie Member
Posts: 6
(1/13/04 8:53:36 pm)
Reply | Edit Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo brian edwards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
I am still waiting for a response Brian.

I know you or someone at NSC check these postings because you were the one
that mentioned Gino DeCarlo when I confronted you about my suspicions
and you told me how your competition was creating these posts and false news
stories found at the previous link I posted.

If you are who you say you are, then prove it now. I will completely admit
that I am wrong about Brian Edwards, of National Sports Consultants, not
appearing on HBO, the cable movie channel. Here is your chance to rebuild
your credibility. Tell me what show you were on and I will verify that and
report back to this posting. You can also tell me the ESPN, cable TV
network, show you were on too.

One other thing.....if you are visiting this posting as a successfull client
of NSC, you should probably know they charge their clients different prices
for the
same information! So bargain with them! They are taking you for all they
can.

If you have had an experience with NSC that you would like to share email
them to me at nscvictim@yahoo.com. I am consolidating these to present to
the proper authorities. The more we have, the better! Time is running out
and if you want to feel some vindication for being scammed, this is your
chance
to do it.

Edited by: DAREDAVE at: 1/14/04 11:45:02 am

stallan54
Rookie Member
Posts: 2
(1/14/04 9:40:07 am)
Reply Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo brian edwards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
DareDave,
I thought I would check this site out again to see if there were replies on
my offshore account inquiry, and I found some disturbing replies by yourself
and
one other. First off, no I do not work within NSC. I have owned my own
commercial contracting business for 23 years and usually don't let things
like this
bother me however, one thing is perfectly clear. You have a chip on your
shoulder after you won a game but only by a certain number of points? Are
you
kidding? You sound rediculous and should feel embarrassed. I have never done
business with Brian Edward. I have heard of him though through one other
client I have spoken to. He is a shareholder as well in the business. I made
a request to Mr Fizer and asked him to post something to you. He did look at
the
website while I was on the phone with him and he is doing a thorough
investigation on who you are and wants to speak with you directly. He will
have the
attorney at NSC look at this as well to consider defamation. I don't blame
him if he does, and to be honest with you, I hope this bites you in the
butt. He told
me that his branch has no time to waste on people like you. However your
posts have made me determine somethings. #1 You are a degenerate gambler
that probably isn't successful. #2 You have no idea what business ethics are
and #3 With this attitude you will never be successful. I promise. Take it
from a
guy with 23 years as an entrepreneur. Guys like you with nothing better to
do fizzle quickly. As for this week I haven't made a cent. I won a game and
lost a
game. But if I told you what I had offshore at my sportsbook, you probably
will write 10 replies on how you think I am lying. I don't care if you do
and
technically it is none of your business. Dave, you should be ashamed and
embarrassed that you are complaining after winning with Jacksonville. I have
nothing more to say to someone who treats a potential business or
opportunity the way you do. I don't want bad words or namecalling here.
Tha'ts not what
I intend but if you want to call me sometime I will be more than happy to
accept your call if you can speak like a gentleman. Let me know and I will
e-mail
you directly with information.

DAREDAVE
Rookie Member
Posts: 7
(1/14/04 11:21:43 am)
Reply | Edit Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo brian edwards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Stallan54,

Thanks for the reply.

I am not complaining about winning by only a few points with Atlanta. I am
complaining about the fact I was given a verbal committment from Brian
Edwards when he was trying to get me to invest. He made a committment to me,
which was the main selling point when I decided to invest and he didn't
fulfill it. I have no problem with losing a game. I didn't expect to win
them all. I don't expect to be lied to either to get me to continue to
invest.

I welcome every inquiry that anyone wants to make. I would love to put
everything out there for an impartial person or group of people to make a
decision
about who is who in this situation. Defamation would only apply if what I am
posting isn't true. For example, your Point #1 is a perfect case of
defamation. I
can prove everything I have written. In response to your #2 I do know what
business ethics are, that is why I am doing what I am doing. As to point #3,
once
again you have no ideal of my success in life. No, I wasn't successful when
I tried to form a partnership with NSC.

You have no ideal who I am or how long I can continue my committment.
Frankly, I don't really care who you think I am, that is irrelevant, but the
chip on
my shoulder was put there by the associates at NSC and how they mislead me.

I can also assure there are many others who have experienced the same with
NSC.

And Stallan, I never called you a liar, I just doubted the claims of some
postings on this board as you are doubting me now. Are you the only person
who
has the right to do that?

I wish you continued success in your business and with your off-shore
account.

I can also assure you I am neither ashamed or embarrassed about what I am
doing. Maybe this will keep others from making the same mistake I made?

Actually, (if you are who you claim to be and being a successful customer of
NSC), you might want to contact me to get further information about how
much different people have been paying for the same information. Your
attitude may change too.

Edited by: DAREDAVE at: 1/15/04 9:11:07 am

DAREDAVE
Rookie Member
Posts: 8
(1/15/04 10:20:12 am)
Reply | Edit Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo brian edwards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Oh.........and one more thing Stallan54.

In your original post you mentioned having a stake in the Arkansas St. game,
but did not know the results yet because it had not started. I guess you
don't
follow your picks and results very close because you posted at 10:12 PM
(EST). The Ark St. vs Fla Int. game was over and recorded on sports websites
by
9:32 PM (EST). So not only had the game started, IT WAS OVER!!! It was a
winner! Congratulations your hopes were fulfilled.....hmmmmm?????

I am not going to post conclusions about you on this board like you did me.
I'll reserve that to those reading this message to determine what they think
about your information and opinion in this entire matter. Here is the link
to the Yahoo sports news story about your game, in case you have been too
busy
counting your money to check on it. Note the time stamp in the bottom right
hand corner......time is running out.

sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/re...0401030212

stallan54
Rookie Member
Posts: 3
(1/15/04 7:57:04 pm)
Reply Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo brian edwards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
DareDave,
I am not a player who watches my scores minute to minute. Yes, I did win
that play. It really doesn't bother me what you say. The only reason you may
be a
little sour is because you are a gambler. I have concluded that. Nothing you
say or nothing you do will affect the way I handle my business. You have no
time on your hands and sound like someone they talk about on the radio show
with time-wasters. It's true. And the ethics we wrote about, Dave, you have
none. You have no dignity either. I'm not here to throw names around again,
nor profanity, I am just getting sick of you being the only one among maybe
1
more that is unhappy. I am allowed to repeat this however. Dave...if your
last name starts with an 'H', the proper authorities have been contacted as
well as
attorneys. An associate I deal with is very disturbed on how uncooperative
and unprofessional you are treating this. I'm not saying that to scare you.
To be
honest, you are entitled to your opinion, but a person like you has no
business doing this to a multi-million dollar company. If you are an unhappy
client,
contact someone there different then. To try to express yourself this way is
very immature and unprofessional. I will give you a senior associates name
and
number who is willing to speak with you, and you can contact them
accordingly. Otherwise, stop making yourself look embarrassing. You have not
responded to me about us contacting each other either. I have 2 offices. One
in Panama City, FL and one in Basking Ridge, NJ. I will give you the direct
number to contact me there. The closer city the better so you don't have to
waste your 2 cents on long distance.

stallan54
Rookie Member
Posts: 4
(1/15/04 8:09:32 pm)
Reply Re: National Sports Consultants/gino decarlo brian edwards
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Dave,
Just a play I might share with you on time. Goes in about 3 hours from now.
Long Beach St. +3 over Cal Fullerton.
Just to let you know what I have tonight.

exit48
Rookie Member
Posts: 3
(1/15/04 9:42:25 pm)
Reply NSC
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
NSC is a GODDAM rip off,,, stallan54 I belive you are one of these NSC
cocksukers,, @#%$ You Grease Ball PRICK!!!

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#4 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 02:51 PM
Dante Dante is offline
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
If anyone deals with touts they are just asking to get ripped.....you can
pick games JUST as well as
touts[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]
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#5 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 02:55 PM
Total Square Total Square is online now
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Default RE: WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
guy lost $2.3 mil to them

what was he thinking after the first 500 dimes???
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#6 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 05:48 PM
CAYA CAYA is offline
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
How is this a scam?

Its the handicapping business and its never been pretty.
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#7 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 06:40 PM
Total Square Total Square is online now
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
Quote:
Originally posted by: CAYA
How is this a scam?

Its the handicapping business and its never been pretty.
tie it in with an affiliate/referral deal, and hose some guy with the
resources to be heard out of $2.3 mil, and you have a problem.
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#8 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 06:46 PM
sportman

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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
Quote:
Originally posted by: Total Square
guy lost $2.3 mil to them

what was he thinking after the first 500 dimes???

He was thinking: I'm DUE TO GET HOT!!
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#9 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 06:47 PM
Pancho Sanza Pancho Sanza is offline
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
These guys are on local radio here every Saturday morning.

They are pure scum, listen to them for 5 minutes and after you stop laughing
, you want to throw up.
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#10 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 06:52 PM
Pancho Sanza Pancho Sanza is offline
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
"They cashed in on "package fees" for the inside information and alleged
kickbacks from those who took the bets. "

So which sportsbooks were providing the kickbacks to these guys?
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#11 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 07:04 PM
clevfan clevfan is offline
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
I think one of the guys who posted on the victim's site mentioned SBG Global
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#12 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 07:16 PM
BuzzRavanaugh BuzzRavanaugh is offline
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
I thought Nationwide was the gold sheet.

I thought National Sports Consultants was Gary London.

Very interesting find clevfan.
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#13 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 08:29 PM
bob sparks bob sparks is offline
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
look at the writing on the wall boys.........won't be to long before places
like majorwager will be a thing of the past. because they will not beable to
TOUT
offshorebooks and yes big brother can reach canada.
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#14 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 08:47 PM
Dante Dante is offline
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
Quote:
Originally posted by: bob sparks
look at the writing on the wall boys.........won't be to long before places
like majorwager will be a thing of the past. because they will not beable to
TOUT
offshorebooks and yes big brother can reach canada.

either that bob OR they will make watchdog sites BLOCK all IP's from USA

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#15 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 08:49 PM
Bostongambler Bostongambler is offline
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Default RE: WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
Bob are you a Tout?
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#16 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 09:44 PM
CAYA CAYA is offline
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
Quote:
Originally posted by: Total Square
Quote:
Originally posted by: CAYA
How is this a scam?

Its the handicapping business and its never been pretty.
tie it in with an affiliate/referral deal, and hose some guy with the
resources to be heard out of $2.3 mil, and you have a problem.
Clevfan called it a scam and I want to know why. Handicappers like Feist
have been getting a % of losses for years.
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#17 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 09:54 PM
clevfan clevfan is offline
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
I called it a SCAM because it is a SCAM. The guys scammed the victims out of
money by saying that they had inside info on the games. The articles clearly
call it a SCAM as well.
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#18 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 09:59 PM
Total Square Total Square is online now
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
Quote:
Clevfan called it a scam and I want to know why. Handicappers like Feist
have been getting a % of losses for years.

as soon as the s**t started hitting the fan, you saw the book ads come off
feist's site faster than i could wolf down a pint of ben &
jerries[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
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#19 (permalink)
Old 04-09-2004, 10:18 PM
CAYA CAYA is offline
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Default RE:WOW- Federal officials arrest at least 12 accused in gambling
scam
Quote:
Originally posted by: clevfan
I called it a SCAM because it is a SCAM. The guys scammed the victims out of
money by saying that they had inside info on the games. The articles clearly
call it a SCAM as well.
This is what many handicappers have done for years. They lie about having
inside information, they take a percentage of losses. They take money from
their customers in exchange for picks. The customers are greedy and want to
cheat the bookmaker because they think they have inside information. You are
always quick to place a value judgement on someone's actions, then use that
as an excuse to post all the private information you can about the people
you've labeled scammers.

These guys were doing the same thing aggressive handicappers have been doing
for ages. Its no more of a scam than what passes for normal everyday conduct
in these message forums.

I can see the case for false advertising, but these people are typical of an
aggressive breed of handicappers. The individuals that were "scammed" were
greedy and paid the price. I'm looking hard for a victim here maybe you can
point the way. Think about it. The "victims" here tried to cheat the
bookmaker out of money because they thought they were privy to inside info.
Who are the real criminals? They tried to cheat the sportsbooks out of
millions of dollars. They are the scammers.

The title of the thread should read "Group of scammers that tried to steal
from Bookmakers cry to the FBI and get handicappers busted".

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